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 Post subject: RhB lights
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:12 pm 
Just when I thought I had figured it out, I have to read something that throws a curb ball.

The question here is, when the red lights are used, I thought there two red lights and both are on (locomotive is driving by itself or Wendezug application). Now I just red It is only one red light on the lower right? What is now true? Or is that the red light one would have gotten by putting a red screen over the existing white light, but in case were there are two red lights they will be used?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:23 pm 
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I thought the single red was for when it was running bobtail only. Just recently I came across a website with a type of diagram showing all the light possibilities...now where was it!!?? I knew I should have copied that address! :oops:

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:09 pm 
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This is a bit complicated, indeed. You won't get all your answers just by reading the rules.... Some light indications are against the rules, but hard-wired into the vehicle so they just are that way. Now the current rules do not call for any rear markers at all, except for street running at night, and then it's the road code that calls for a red marker. This is a deviation from the standard Swiss rule book that applies to the RhB.
Two red markers are not possible on our vehicles. Three red lights displayed on the front of the train are a danger sign to oncoming trains.
so, if you plan to use prototypical lights and markers, you need to know what consist you use.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:55 pm 
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Hello-

Ernst Reutimann gives some general rules for RhB locos and steuerwagens...

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/reutimann/Medi ... ignale.jpg

It is also located for download as a PDF here:

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/reutimann/aktuell.html#aktneu

(Try scrolling up after clicking on the link... :grin: )

Best regards,
Bob

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Last edited by rwbrashear on Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:55 pm 
Gion:

That confuses me. Here is why:

Image

On this loco, there are three white headlights and two red ones. You say if this loco runs alone ont he track, then It has three white headlights and the lower right red? If it runs with a train behind it a lower right white, if it does double traction no tail light for the first loco, no head lights on the second and the lower right white on the tail, if it is in double formation (each loco its on engineer), the first one has a lower right white taillight as does the second.

In case of danger sign, were is the thrid red comming from, a color disk in front of the top light? So why do most of the modenr locos have two red lights on each side build in, if only one is sometimes used? For cosmetic reasons? This will give me some spear bulbs :grin: :grin: :grin:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:55 pm 
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Hi Axel

now this is easier to explain, because you give me a specific locomotive and ask for possible configurations. Reutimann's diagrams are what the current rules call for and do not always correspond to RhB practice. I will give you an example afterwards.

The Ge 4/4II displays three white lights on the engineer's side. They can be turned off in the case of a doubleheader with both engines manned. The front engine on a doubleheader will have the rear white light extinguished in all cases, so as not to blind the rear engineer.
A single red light, the one on the side with the number "611" shows on the rear end of a light engine or if the engine is on the rear of a push-pull consist AND if the engineer chooses to turn it on (he doesn't have to like on the Swiss Federal). He may as well display a single white or no light at all. He may even display red with cars trailing after the engine, in effect marking the end of train in the middle of the train. This is because the RhB abolished end of train markers about twenty years ago.
The other red light is only to be used for the three-red danger sign. The third red light is built into the top light housing.
The reason some model builders install two red lights is that this is the German standard and they never checked.
Another deviation from the rules is that if a Ge 4/4II, or indeed any other road engine, is used for switching, it can't display the two whites on both sides. It would show three whites on one side and one white on the other.


To make matters more confusing, the Tm2/2 that LGB just brought out, usually display three whites both sides and can't display red, even though LGB gave them that feature and in spite of everything the rule book says.

Have fun rewiring...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:30 am 
Gion:

Great. So basically Reutimann had it very correct. And I have to do a lot of soldering and new wiring in the winter. FYI my TM 2/2 can't display anything right now. When I programmed with ADAPT the other day I said write all without a prior read all :oops: :oops: :oops: , so the CV for the bulb voltage went to full and LGB's 5V bulbs lasted about 5 secs. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Thanks for the great explaination. Danger I assume would have been displayed on the Bernina Line were they repair the viaduct, when they unloaded the construction gear?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:35 am 
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AXEL wrote:
Gion:

....................

Thanks for the great explaination. Danger I assume would have been displayed on the Bernina Line were they repair the viaduct, when they unloaded the construction gear?


Axel,

As far as I know only if the construction gear would have been exceeding the regular profile.
And that would be lots of fun on the Bernina line with the tight clearances.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:55 am 
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The three red light danger signal would be displayed if you get an emergency brake application or sense a derailment on the double track line to stop oncoming trains or for any other reason when you want an oncoming train to stop before going by your train.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:48 pm 
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When checking on a Tm 2/2 (No 21 in Scuol) I discovered I was wrong in my other post. There is a selector switch with three positions: R(Rangier=Switcher), V(Vorne=ahead), H(Hinten=back). The usual position is R and it displays three whites ahead (platform side) and two whites backwards. The V and H positions have three whites ahead and one white backwards. Red tail sign, when it was needed, would have been displayed by putting a red disk in front of the light.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:45 pm 
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Gion forwarded some pictures on the RhB light schemes

This is the normal head of train indication:

Image



This is the wide load indication, demanding caution passing work areas
or ramp tracks:


Image


This is the danger signal to oncoming trains, only used in an emergency
on double track or passing tracks:


Image


The rear of a light engine or push-pull train may show this:

Image


or this:

Image

or this:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: RhB lights
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:30 am 
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I know this i a rather old thread, but the subject fits, so why don't collect all the information in the same thread :)

I'm about to DCC equip my Bernina railcars, and looking to do it as correctly as possible. Gion states above that road engines don't have the "2 whites" option for switching, but surfing the internet, I've come across a small batch of (different) photos where the TW II shows only 2 whites. Here's one from RhB promotion material:

Attachment:
1601225_786672114712228_6620844252418838214_n.jpg
1601225_786672114712228_6620844252418838214_n.jpg [ 107.94 KiB | Viewed 7215 times ]


My question is, what aspects are the different series of Bernina TW able to show? (And are the pictures I've found just evidence of broken bulbs)

TW I obviously only have white bulbs, but where red discs used for taillights (when road running) and danger?

TW II, three whites, two reds as far as I can see. Found a post on another forum saying that just the two reds was used for danger. What about wide load?

TW III have all 3 + 3 modern white/red, and as such should be able to show all aspects as seen on the Ge 4/4 II in this thread, but are they able to show the switching aspect?

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Last edited by Andreas M on Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RhB lights
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:40 am 
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I've got a photo of 702 with only one of the lower lights and the high level marker light illuminated ( suspect broken bulb) and a Ge4/4II with a flashing high level marker light.
(answers on a postcard....)


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 Post subject: Re: RhB lights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:23 am 
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Andreas
the Tw II in your photo shows three whites, only the upper bulb is just a dim marker light and not a bright headlight.
Tw I use 1 (just 1 and never 2) reds for street running by slipping a red disc over the rear headlight.
Tw II CAN display three reds, the upper marker has 2 bulbs.
the 2 + 2 switching lights can't be displayed by those motors, and as far as I know nobody cares about it, might have been abolished in some rules change. The wide load marker has also been abolished, probably because there are no employees left on the road to show it to

Gion

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 Post subject: Re: RhB lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:37 am 
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Thanks Gion! :) So if I want to follow the prototype closely when installing LEDs in my TW's, I would let the upper light be always dimmed? And the lower ones are dimmable by the driver, or are they always bright lit?

grcaprez wrote:
The wide load marker has also been abolished, probably because there are no employees left on the road to show it to

Do you know when it was abolished? My mind (and more importantly my layout) is settled around 2002, was the wide load marker still around at that point in time? :)

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